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An Explanation of My Atheism by ~Tryptonique:iconTryptonique:



A lot of people wonder whether god exists or if we should even take the concept of god seriously on an intellectual level. As an atheist, I'm going to try to tackle those questions in this essay. First, I am going to attempt to justify a set of three criteria I believe should be applied to any claim or assertion. After that, I am going to try to apply those criteria to the concept of "god" in order to illustrate that we should not take the concept of god seriously.

For clarity's sake, I would first like to define the term "claim" as being essentially synonymous with the term "assertion."

To discuss any claims regarding god's existence, we should first discuss the nature of claims in general. It is extremely important to note that the burden of proof is always on the person making any claim.

I assert that that there are three criteria that should be met (in sequential order) in order to take any claim seriously.

Those criteria are as follows:

1) The claim must be logically possible.

2) It must be logically possible to prove the claim true.

3)There must be some evidence in support of the claim that indicates we should take the claim seriously and investigate it further.

To analyze the first criterion, let's look at a hypothetical claim:

"There are reptilian monsters on a a world called Planet X and they dress in spandex and have a fetish for Rick Astley's music."

A good way to re-conceptualize the first criterion is to ask yourself, "Is this claim capable of being true under certain conditions?" In my example the claim is definitely logically possible. After all, we can imagine that somewhere in the universe there may be spandex wearing reptiles singing "Never Gonna Give You Up." The fact that we can imagine it doesn't make it true. However, if we can imagine it existing, we can't automatically rule it out. There are things that don't meet the conditions set by the first criterion. For example, if somebody makes a claim like, "round triangles exist" then the claim can be discarded immediately based on the fact that such a concept isn't even logically possible due to the violations of logical laws. Examples of logical laws are: the law of identity, the indiscernibility of identicals, etc. Claims that are logically impossible (such as "There are round triangles" or "A = -A") should immediately be discarded and no further inquiry into them is justified or warranted.

To analyze the second criteria, let's use a different example:

Suppose I claim, "An alien race invented a technology that makes a small object invisible to the naked eye as well as any possible form of detection. They used that object to hide 'Object X' on Earth. The alien race that hid 'Object X' also destroyed themselves on their home planet . Due to their destruction, there are no records or traces of their existence or the existence of their technology. The aliens also never made contact with humans."

Once we have determined that something is logically possible, we need to ask ourselves, "Is it logically possible for us to prove the claim?" We can say that my sci-fi example I just provided might be logically possible. It might be a remote possibility that there is an alien race that invented a technology that is capable of making an object completely invisible. It is also logically possible that they completely annihilated themselves and all records of their existence (as well as the existence of their technology). However, the claim "Object X exists on Earth" is completely unprovable by definition. As such, even though such a claim might be true, we can't investigate it or prove it. Thus, there is no reason why anyone should investigate such a claim further.

To analyze the third criterion, let's go back to the first claim of the form:

"There are reptilian monsters on a a world called Planet X and they dress in spandex and have a fetish for Rick Astley's music."

Despite the fact that such a claim is logically possible and logically possible to prove, there is no evidence indicating that we should take the claim seriously or investigate it further. To put it bluntly, there is just no evidence that such creatures exist nor is there any proof that Rick Astley's glorious music has gained him extraterrestrial fans. The short question you should ask when determining whether a claim meets the third criteria is "Is there any evidence suggesting this claim might be true?"

It is worth noting that if a claim fails the first criterion, the second and third criteria become irrelevant. After all, if a claim is logically impossible, then evidence can't exist to prove it, nor will it be logically possible to prove it. Also, If a claim meets the first criterion but fails the second, the third criteria becomes moot. If a claim is logically possible, but impossible to prove - then there can be no evidence for it.

This brings us to an important juncture. We can now ask, "What criteria (if any) does the god concept meet?"

For the purpose of this analysis, I'm going to treat the term "god" as referring to any being that is said to possess infinite qualities, powers, or attributes. I'm also going to assume that the first criterion has been met and that an infinite god is logically possible.  I understand that such an assumption might be a stretch for some atheists and I understand the related arguments that an infinite god is logically impossible. However, the reason why I'm assuming the first criterion has been met is to demonstrate how even if we grant the first criterion, the god concept is doomed to fail the second criterion.

With that said, let's do another thought experiment:

Let's say you are in your room and a sentient being pops in through an open window. This being starts doing miracles to convince you that he is in fact, "god." He turns wine into water and moonwalks on the surface of it. He then balances the federal budget instantly while simultaneously revealing the secrets of cold fusion.

While all of those things would be ridiculously cool, there is one problem. How do you know that this being is "God" and not simply a space alien with superior technological prowess or a more powerful consciousness?

Most people would try to disprove this being's claim through a practical application of the proof-by-contradiction method. This normally takes the form of asking the being to fulfill the most fantastic and whimsical miracles that a person can think of. If the being can't perform some particular miracle, then it obviously isn't "all powerful."

There are two glaring problems with such an approach, though.

The first problem is that a finite being could never ever prove that anything has actual infinite attributes. At best, all we can do is demonstrate that something is beyond the reach of our measuring capacities, in which case the thing might be a practical infinity but we can't know if it is a true infinity. (assuming a true infinity actually does exist in the real world). Thus, proof by contradiction is doomed to fall flat on its face if the sentient being in your room is simply way more advanced than the human attempting to employ proof by contradiction.

The second problem is equally practical in nature. A person must be forced to consider the fact that the being claiming to be infinite might be capable of simply putting people in a realistic virtual reality simulation. Such a being might be able to manipulate our minds via technology or with an evolved form of consciousness (perhaps one that utilizes telepathy?) or perhaps even a controlled manipulation of organic agents that effect the mind (like LSD). Thus, you can't rule out the fact that all of the miracles the being attempts to demonstrate might very well be mind manipulations.

The question still remains: How can we ever separate god from malevolent space aliens with mind-manipulating powers? How can we ever prove that the god that is doing miracles for us isn't just some evil robot who has plugged us into "the Matrix" and is making us perceive such miracles with all of our senses? How do we know that we weren't kidnapped and thrown into a Star Trek-style Holodeck?

To truly "know" a possible god on any meaningful linguistic or cognitive level would require you to BE god. Otherwise, if you aren't god, you are just hedging bets (most likely on Pascal's Wager).

Therefore, it is my assertion that any claim of the form, "god exists" should be routinely ignored if it involves a being of supposedly infinite qualities or attributes. Any claim of that type fails the second criterion.

The failure of the god concept to meet the second criterion lets us infer that compelling evidence for god's existence simply cannot exist. As a corollary, attempting to "prove" the existence of god with scientific methods is a serious waste of time.

-Evan
©2008-2009 ~Tryptonique
:icontryptonique:

Author's Comments

Please feel free to step in and critique my logic, my arguments, or whatever. Debate/discussion is welcome. Just make arguments, not ad hominem attacks or claims without any analysis to back them up. That is all I ask.

Comments


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:iconlordogreus:
(I am a member of ~AtheistsClub.) Nice work. I enjoyed reading that. I have noticed, however, that it is almost always possible to find logical flaws in an argument, no matter how compelling it may be. For example, someone might say that, while you effectively used your three criteria essentially to invalidate the argument for God's existence, why should only those three be used? Why not a completely different set? Not that I disagree with you; I'm just saying that the beliefs of devout Christians (or what have you) are virtually impossible to sway. Even if you completely remove any reason to believe in God, their final fallback position will always be that it is a matter of faith. On the other hand, even though I stopped believing in God several years ago (I was raised as a Christian), I enjoyed reading Richard Dawkins' The God Delusion, because it provided lots of intellectual fodder in the event that you should need to defend your position.

About the writing itself, I felt it was a little abrupt. You set up this argument nicely, but then it ended suddenly. Nevertheless, the structure and argument was creative and thought-provoking.
:icontryptonique:
Excellent comment! This type of comment is exactly what I'm looking for. You were thoughtful and thorough.

Basically the idea that I'm getting from your comment is that I could spend some time justifying the actual criteria I use instead of just using them as an assumed framework based on common sense. Yeah yeah. ;)
You're right, I shouldn't be intellectually lazy. I will definitely take your critique to heart here and will provide a groundwork when I can find the time.

Do you have any specific ideas regarding to how I might be able to end my essay in a less abrupt manner or one that feels more natural to you?

I would appreciate any input here. Thanks again for reading my essay and commenting on it.

You rock!

-E

--
Will critique for food.
:icondrake124:
Well, God logically can exist, so he passes one. God could possibly pass two, we dont actually have a perfect understanding of the universe and for centuries flight was assumed impossible, God could turn out that way. Even if he fails 2, but then again so do many theories. The Big Bang fails at 2, Quantum Theory and Mass Energy fail here too, and if im being nit picking countless others, but few deny them. God also passes three, existence is possible evidence.

Your point about somthing being infintly tall having to grow makes no sense. if it is infintly tall then it cant get any taller because it is infintly tall.

Your "second problem" sounds far fetched for the most part, like the God you attempt to disprove.

And why would one have to be a God to know a God? thats like saying unless you have an infinte attribute you cant know infinty. Or because you arnt a cup you cant know a cup. Not only if you cant know God, then how do you know he doesnt exist?

Additoinally God isnt a scientific theory, it is a belief, a social theory.
:icondrake124:
this was nicely written though, and not stupid like a lot of "god doesnt exist" stuff on devart
:iconlordogreus:
:) Thanks, and you're welcome.

I suppose it could have been fleshed out more. It was really just an impression -- I could tell where you were going, and I expected a grandiose conclusion where everything was brought together in one big, intellectual wallop. Instead, you briefly made your point, and the essay subsequently fizzled out. You dwelled primarily on your hypothetical scenarios, and the relevant issue almost came across as an afterthought.

Perhaps you could simply state why the concept of God fails in a similar fashion as with the previous examples. It will basically reiterate your opinion and make your message clear, I think.

About the criteria, maybe after each point, you could offer a brief statement as to why you feel it is necessary and valid.

One last thing I'd like to mention is that a good argument will also take a look at the opposing viewpoints. Why might someone disagree with you? If you can address that, your argument will be all the more effective.
:iconlordogreus:
I offered some critiques to the author, and I noticed your comment.

God's existence cannot be logically proven. Your example of flight does not apply because if refers to something that depends on the natural world and its laws. The idea of God is crafted such that there is no way for us either to know or not to know if he exists, insofar as our only means of knowing rely on physical senses. In order for your comparison to be valid, we would have to assume that human senses have a latent capacity to perceive beyond the physical confines of this reality.

I might not even go so far as to say that he could exist, because, according to the laws of nature, such a being is impossible -- it fundamentally contradicts everything we know of the universe. Of course, a Christian would say that God created the physical universe, and is not bound by its laws; and neither does he necessarily reside within it. Instead, he exists in a separate realm, a separate plane of existence, where the conventional laws of the universe do not apply. The idea reaches a point where a person of reasonable intelligence has to note that it is absurd and transparent.

His example of an infinitely tall being demonstrated the idea that we, as limited beings, cannot calculate, quantify, or measure infinite attributes. If we could, the possessor of such attributes would not be a god. If we cannot prove that something has infinite attributes, we cannot prove that a god exists, because we cannot prove that it is a god.

I'll actually agree with you that invoking The Matrix might have been a bit superfluous. It is an idea that could be explored, but it doesn't really support his argument. One could conceive of a way in which it might be relevant, though. In a way, God represents the machines, and we are the slaves living in his fabricated reality. Essentially, it is an accurate analogy. The laws that govern nature and our perception thereof were, according to Christianity, dictated by God. But by that argument, one would have to assume God did not want us to know that he existed.

And it's funny that you should say that the existence of God isn't a scientific theory, because that is precisely what some Christians hope to accomplish by disguising creationism as "intelligent design."
:iconwolf590:
The newer version seems a lot clearer than the first one; thanks for letting me know.

Reading this, I realise how simple everything seems. I usually thought that nothing made sense and it worked just because.
I like the way you've put this essay. It's not simple, but you've implied your point in almost every sentence.
:thumbsup:
:icontryptonique:
Fantastic. I'm glad you liked my new version!

-E

--
Will critique for food.
:icontryptonique:
Thanks! I appreciate the sentiment.

-E

--
Will critique for food.
:icontryptonique:
Well, I love your comment excluding this part:

"One last thing I'd like to mention is that a good argument will also take a look at the opposing viewpoints. Why might someone disagree with you? If you can address that, your argument will be all the more effective."

This essay is purely expository in nature. It isn't designed to be a dialogue on two opposing viewpoints or to examine how various arguments interrelate, mesh, or clash. This essay is purely *my case* for atheism, take it or leave it.
If people find it compelling or interesting, great. If they think, "But it neglects to address argument X" fine. They can either bring up argument X with me here in the comments section or they can use their own judgment and decide accordingly.

This essay isn't "An Essay Defending Atheism from Common Critiques" or "Extolling the Virtues of the Atheist Position."

As such, I feel that it is perfectly appropriate to simply lay out my position, sans opposing arguments - much like editorial writers do all of the time.

I can see why you would perhaps like such arguments, I just don't feel they are necessary here. In fact, part of why I edited the original form of this essay is due to its length being unwieldy.

Anyway...with that said, I like your other comments a lot and will do some more work on this essay later on (once I have some free time to do so).

-E

--
Will critique for food.

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April 24, 2008
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